Liga iha ne'e atu haree artigu molok 20 Setembru.

JRH : ami simu relatorio ne'e, tanba relatorio ne'e hateten maioria responsabilidade, maioria Violensia instituisaun TNI mak halo, ne'e mak faktus importante maibe laos depois atu fila fali halo Tribunal Internasional. Hau lahatete que hau lakohi justisa, justisa Indonesia sei lao, maibe Indonesia mak bele halo, ita mos Timor Leste ita lakohi ema internasional atu mai bongkar tun bongkar sae ho ita nia sistema judicial ou ita nia governo. Timor oan barak baruk ona hare estrangeiro barak-barak mak mai manda tun manda sae, tinan 10 nia laran sira iha ne'e, atu halo kapasity building, kapacity building saida? entaun se ita hatete Indonesia nasaun ida que orguilho teb-tebes, nasaun ne'e laos sesenta anos deit, nasaun ne'e mai husi civilizasaun atus ba atus, civilizasaun Javanesa, entaun hatete ba sira atu hari Tribunal Internasional ida hau hanoin ita mangame, ita mehi.

TVTL : Sr. Presidente hanoin sira, desizaun sira nebe estadu foti ladun intende ho razaun sira seluk, ho situasaun ida hanesan ne'e oin sa mak ita bele fo garante ba ita nia povu sira katak situasaun dame ne'e bele moris?

JRH : hau nudar ita bot sira hatene, populasaun sira hatene iha tinan hirak ne'e nia laran, mesmo nudar Ministro Negosiu Estrangeiro maske hau viagem ba mundo tomak sei iha tempu atu viagem ba distritu sira, desde tempu ministro Estrangeiro, desde tempu UNTAET, nudar Primeiru Ministru iha tempu krize mos hau tama fatuk koak sai fatuk koak, tama distritu sai distritu. Nudar Presidente tinan rua liu ona ba distritu, sub. Distritu, aldeia lubuk ida. Se povu nia preukupasaun numeru 1 mak problema 99, hau la rona ida ne'e iha hau nia viagem ba distritu hotu-hotu, koalia ho ema rihun ba rihun nunka hau rona liafuan ida mai kona ba 99 ka 75. Klaru iha vitimas, vitimas nebe ita respeita, maibe sira hakarak hetan rekonyesementu husi estadu, estadu halo rekonyesimentu, vitimas hakarak tulun ba sira nebe la konsege servisu ne'e estadu nia obrigasaun, maibe hau nunka rona vitima sira hateten ami hakarak Tribunal Internasional, hau nunka rona ida ne'e. foin dadaun Senhor Primeiru Ministru ba Suai aniversariu Masacre igreja Suai. Hau la ba tanba hau hateten ba primeiru Ministru como ita ba hau lalika ba tanba hau la gosta que Primeiru Ministru, Presidente sai husi capital ou sai husi nasaun. Ami kombina uluk kedas se nia sai ba tasi balun hau tenki iha ne'e, hau sai nia tenke iha ne'e, portantu ida tenki iha ne'e. Povu iha Suai, povu nebe moris iha fronteira, povu nebe vitimas direitu ba massacre igreija Suai sira rasik hatudu maturidade bot teb-tebes, iha neba momentu ne'e laiha manifestasaun, laiha hakilar sira hatudu sira nia dignidade, vitima sira hatudu sira nia kumpriensaun ba politika estadu, I hau kuandu halo viagem hirak ne'e hau rona, ita halo ne'e que hetan konsensu ida tinan sanulu ne'e nia laran ou tinan lima ne'e nia laran, husi fatin hotu–hotu iha Timor nia laran hau rona hotu-hotu ezizi Tribunal Internnasional ida, ne'e estadu ne'e tenki hanoin ne'e duni, maibe se ida ne'e mak povu hakarak, Presidente da republika, Primeiru Ministru ou Parlamentu tenki sukat didiak . Se povu hotu-hotu dehan ami hakarak tribunal internasional, maibe hau nudar Presidente hau hatene, se hau tuir povu nia hakarak I halo lobby ba Tribunal Internasional hau sobu relasaun ho Indonesia, hau sobu dame iha Fronteira entaun hau labele simu ida ne'e, e se hau la simu, lasimu povu nia ezizensia, entaun hau resigna husi Presidente da Republika, tanba hau nia konsiensia hatete hau lakohi kaer politika ida ne'e tanba ne'e bele hamonu estadu ida ne'e.

TVTL : Fila fali ba kazu Maternus Berek nian, karik ida ne'e tanba presaun husi Indonesia ka ne'e mak estadu nia hanoin duni atu kria relasaun diak ho estadu iha futuru?

JRH: Indonesia la halo presaun, sira telefone, sira kontakta ita nia Ministro Estrangeiro, hau koalia telefone ho Ministru Hasan Wirayuda nebe hau konyese diak e sira hateten mak ida ne'e deit, ita halo akordu verdade no amizade iha tinan hirak ne'e nia laran Indonesia buka halo buat hotu-hotu para tulun Timor Leste nia estabilidade apoia ita tama ASEAN, apoia ita membru ARS, simu ita nia estudante sira e mos halo presaun hahu iha 99-2000 ba milisia sira para keta bok ami. Iha tinan 10 nia laran ne'e, elementus Timor be ita bolu milisia hela iha Atambua, Kupang, Kefa sira mos hatudu sira nia laran diak, iha tinan sanulu nia laran sira la halo problema ba ita. Tes Durante tinan sanulu ita hakarak tes tinan hira tan tinan rua nulu tan tinan tolunulu tan. Se Fronteira ohin hakmatek laos tanba deit TNI, tanba ita nia alin, ita nia maun sira iha Fronteira, iha Atambua, iha Kupang, iha Kefa sira mos hadomi nafatin nasaun ida ne'e, sira mos hatete ami lakohi kontribui tan ba halo at ba ami nia rain e ne'e ba hau hanesan sentimentu arependimentu ida, sentimentu ida que hateten sim ami sala ami lakon. Depois ema oan ida Sr. Berek, tama, hau la kunyese, hau rona dehan nia tama tanba buka medico, populasaun hare nia, kaer nia, baku nia e polisia salva nia, ne'e normal kuandu populasaun hirus teb-tebes derepente hare elementus ida que tinan sanulu liu ba halo at ba sira, Polisia mak salva nia e lori ba kadeia. Ita nia pergunta primeiru hateten nune'e ne'e legal ka illegal ? hau hateten nune'e nem tudo, laos buat hotu-hotu nebe legal apoia interese nasional, interese estadu nian. Se lei maka tenki iha leten liu, leten liu interese estadu nian, relasaun estadu ho vizinho sira, entaun hau fo exemplo ida iha 2002 Governu Dr. Mari'I Alkatiri nian halo akordu rua ho Estadus Unidos da America que hau rasik assina nudar Ministru Estrangeiro, ida akordu naran SOFA (The Status Of Force Agreement) akordu ida ne'e hau assina iha Washington ho Secretariu do Estadu Colin Powell akordu ne'e hateten Militar Americanu ruma nebe servisu iha Timor, se halo sala ruma labele julgamentu iha Timor, Timor laiha direitu atu julga, ita fo fiar judisiariu Amerikanu maka bele julga nia. Se ita la halo akordu SOFA forsa Amerikana nem ema ida mai iha ne'e, e akordu ne'e halo iha rai lubuk ida iha mundu tomak. Se ita hatete ita entrega fila fali ba Amerika sira nia soberania julga sira nia ema, se ita aseita. Ne'e Governu konstitusional mak halo ida ne'e, e ida tan iha 2003 Tribunal Penal Internasional nebe Timor mos halo parte ona, tratadu de Roma nebe Timor mos ratifika, Amerika nunka ratifika ida ne'e, Indonesia mos nunka, Xina, nebe iha Asia ne'e iha nasaun rua ka tolu deit; Timor Leste, Korea do Sul, no Japaun maka ratifika. Tribunal Internasional Penal ne'e existe ona, funsiona iha Aya. Maibe wainhira ita halo akordu ida ne'e estadus Unidos kontakta kedas ita hatete ami hakarak halo akordu ida ho imi para que se tribunal internasional Penal ne'e halo mandatu kaptura ba elementu Amerikanu ruma nebe iha imi nia rai, imi labele entrega ba Tribunal Penal ne'e, entrega fila deit ba ami. E Timor halo akordu ne'e ho America, e momentu kuandu Timor assina akordu ne'e Timor hamutuk deit ho rai nen ka hitu.

TVTL : ita hare ba kazu Maternus Berek ninian, iha Timor ita kaer ba regulamentu UNTAET no 15 / 2000 ninian nebe ema sira nebe envolve iha Crimes Garves ne'e sei bele julga iha ita nia prosesu judisiario iha Timor Leste. Se karik hanesan ne'e ho desizaun estadu ninian nebe mak foin dadaun Sr. Presidente esplika, oin sa ita bele responde sistema judisiariu nebe bele lao diak iha ita rain ?

JRH : kuandu hau esplika kona ba SOFA, kona ba akordu ho Estadus Unidus hau kontinua hateten nune'e se ita halo akordu ho estadus Unidos e konfia se elementu estadus Unidus ruma komete krime ita entrega ba sira mak halo julgamentu tanba sa mak ita la konfia mos estadu Indonesiu para halo justisa. Se Republika America halo ka lahalo ne'e sira nia responsabilidade moral e politika, se Indonesia halo ka lahalo sira mak bele fo resposta. Mas timor Leste hateten ami nudar estadu ho maturidade ami labele, estadu ida labele hateten ba estadu seluk, diskulpa estadu Indonesia ami la konfia imi nia justisa, ne'e laos linguagem relasaun diplomatico iha mundo laos nune'e, liu-liu kuandu estadu ne'e demokratico e nia demokrasia dinamico liu fali ona Timor Leste nian e sira halo reforma barak ita hateten diskulpa maibe ami la konfia ita bot sira. Se maka hakarak kaer relasaun estadu nune'e, favor iha 2012 hili fatin kadeira nudar Presidente da Republika, hau lae. Hau hateten deit nune'e sr. Berek nia sidadaun Indonesia, Indonesia la aseita dupla nasionalidade, ema nebe Indonesiu labele iha duas Nasionalidade nia sidadaun Indonesia, maske uluk komete krime iha ne'e e krime ne'e nia komete iha ne'e laos de depois de 2002, nia komete iha 99, estadu ne'e seidauk existe, entaun hau nia preferensia hau hateten nia laos nia labele enfrenta justisa maibe estadu Indonesia maka bele halo justisa. Hau hatete dalabarak estadu Indonesia, sosiedade Indonesia maka bele halo analiza reflesaun ba sira nia istoria. Problema hotu-hotu nebe akontese iha Indonesia 65,66, Aceh, Tanjung Priok sira mak bele hare ida ne'e, laos Timor Leste. Sidadaunida ne'e, Senhor berek sidadaun Indonesia, hau hateten entrega ba Indonesia para halo justisa Se ita iha informasaun hotu-hotu, e hau fiar katak ita iha, prosesu ne'e Tribunal Timor Leste nian, Prokurador geral da Republika, hau lahatene prosedimentu birokrasi lolos formal ne'e oin sa, deporta ema ne'e ba Indonesia, ita nia polisia akompanya ba fronteira entrega ba autoridade Indonesia atu hare ba krime nebe senhor ne'e halo iha 99.

TVTL : Sr. Presidente, ohin ita dehan povu laiha preukopasaun sobre kazu Maternus ne'e ita nia orgaun politika, soberania sira mak preukupa barak liu hodi hamosu opiniaun kona ba kazu Maternus Berek. Maibe problema ida mak ne'e se ita kompara ho nasaun seluk kuandu ita hare ba interese Nasional, konserteza iha buat ida naran konsensu Nasional, e iha kazu ida ne'e nusa mak Sr. Presidente mos la halo konsensu Nasional ?

JRH : hau fo hatene hau hasoru ho bankada sira, ho Primeiru Ministru, Dr. Mari Alkatiri, dalahira ona, e ultimaves hau hanoin foin iha fulan Julho liu ba ne'e, reuniaun ho sira hotu-hotu iha sala konselho do estadu iha Presidente da Republika I iha momentu ne'e dala ida tan hau hateten ba sira, tanba laos primeira vez, iha hau nia uma antes de atentadu kontra hau ne'e, halo reuniaun iha kantor iha Farol hau hateten ba sira, ita hotu-hotu liu-liu bankada sira, tanba lei tenki mai husi Parlamentu laos Governo ho presidensia da Republica, hetan lei ida, projetu lei ida Amnestia para taka problema 74-99, hau hateten dalabarak, maibe hau labele obriga kada partidu e momentu ne'e hau rona kuaze sira hotu-hotu hatudu sira nia kumpriensaun e hau hateten hau hakarak iha fulan Agusto ita hetan projetu lei ida ne'e, maibe hau mos kumpriende que tempu apertadu teb-tebes tanba Parlamentu tama iha …..e iha 15 de Agostu tempu laiha. Portantu ne'e ddiskuti dalabarak hau lembra bebeik, tanba hau hateten se ita lahalo ne'e loron ruma buat ruma sei nakfera iha ita nia oin. Kazu berek konfirma buat nebe iha tinan rua nia laran ona halo la biban.

TVTL : Se ita hare ba kazu Berek , ita mos hare ohin senhor Presidente esplika kona ba CVA, iha rekomendasoens CVA nia la foka liu katak haluha buat nebe iha kotuk, mas iha termus ida nebe dehan katak forgive but not to forget. Iha termus ida ne'e oin sa Timor atu responde ?

 JRH : diak, liafuan ida ne'e hau konkorda 100%, forgive katak ita fo perdaun ba sira nebe uluk hasoru ita, uluk halo at ba ita individualmente, perdaun ne'e mai husi ita nia fuan e perdaun ne'e bele mai mos husi legislasaun, maibe liu-liu fo perdaun ka la fo perdaun konforme ita nia sentimento, haluha labele, hau lahaluha hau nia alin, bin hirak nebe mate

TVTL : signifika katak haluha ne'e Justisa mos ita haluha ?

JRH : lae, laos signifika atu haluha justisa, ba hau justisa que bot liu nebe mundo halo ba Timor Leste, que mundo nebe to'o 99 hipokrasia bot teb-tebes, sira mak tapeti mean ba Soeharto, sira mak faan kilat ba Soeharto, sira mak apoia Soeharto halo okupasaun Timor, bolu ita komunista, sira ohin mak koalia ibun bot kona ba justisa. Maibe sira hotu-hotu iha 99 muda, America muda, Australia muda, Europa muda. Iha Europa ne'e unika nasaun ativamente iha Timor Leste nia sorin mak Portugal laiha nasaun seluk, ida ka rua simpatisa maibe ativamente nia diplomasia 100% foka ba Timor mak Portugal. Sira seluk Alemanha , faan ro, faan, kilat, helikopteru. Fransa, pior liu Englaterra, pior liu tan America, Australia entaun hakuak Soeharto makaas los, maibe sira hotu-hotu muda, maibe kuandu sira muda iha 99 ita hateten ita lalika koalia tan ba sira nia hahalok at iha kotuk tanba ita ohin relasaun metin los ho America, se ita relasaun metin ho Amerika ita hakarak hateten ami relasaun metin ho imi maibe imi tenki julga ……., Jimmy Carter ta tanba se mak halo esportasaun kilat ba Indonesia laos ……., J, Jimmy Carter , se hau hateten nune'e entaun lae, husik ba kotuk. Entaun ho Indonesia mos nune'e. Se ita hateten ba Amreica ami lakohi julga Jimmy Carter, maibe ami hakarak julga nafatin Jeneral Indonesia sira , tanba sira fraku liu Amerika. Ou ita tauk Jeneral Indonesia sira maibe latauk milisia oan ain tanan ita hatudu an ba sira, politik laos nune'e. 99 komunidade Internasional muda sira nia pozisaun ita hateten ; haluha sira nia hahalok at ne'e, ita lahaluhan ita nia vitima, ita nia terus.

TVTL : Sr. Presidente se ita kaer ba relasaun ho Indonesia, lembra ita selebra desimu aniversariu referendu, iha diskursu Sr. Presidente ninian hateten klaru kedas ona lori estadu nia naran katak estadu la hanoin ona atu husu Tribunal Internasional e iha neba mos Sr. Presidente husu ba Indonesia atu lori fila mate ruin sira nebe mak sekarik uluk Indonesia mak oho ka halo mate, lori mai hodi halo tuir seremonia Timor nian. Depois de ida ne'e mosu kedas ho kazu Maternus Berek , ida ne'e polemika saida mak ne'e ?

JRH : Hau kumpriende, hau la hirus kritika sira nebe mai hau, mai Primeiru Ministru kona ba kazu ida ne'e, maibe hau nudar Presidente da Republika hau labele tuir tanba NGO ida hakilar, tanba labarik oan ida UNMIT nian Human Rights Unit koalia hau hakfodak kedas, tanba hau hanoin laos UNMIT tanba Sr. Atul Khare SRSG, tanba nia ema mai husi India, diplomata bot, nia kumpriende problema iha Asia nian. Maibe malae balun husi Europa, Amerika nebe iha sistema ne'e sira hateten nune'e e hau kuandu rona ne'e hau hanesan atu hamanasa fali, hatudu sira nia beikten. Sira hateten nune'e ; tanba Timor labele halo justisa, Indonesia labele halo Justisa, entaun devia iha Justisa Internasional. Hau hanoin sira tau ona sira nia ain iha laho laran, tanba sa agora Altu Komisario Direitus Humanus se sira hakarak, tanba sira berani teb-tebes favor ba Konselho Seguransa, koalia ba Konselho Seguranasa para halo Tribunal internasional. Se ne'e iha High Commisioner Human Rigths Unit iha Geneva mak hakarak Tribunal Internasional. Se sira la konsege Tribunal Internasional ba Sudan, ba Darfur, nem redus tan Konselho Seguransa oan ida kona ba Birmania, sira la konsege rezolusaun kiik oan ida ba problema lubuk ida iha Medio Oriente. Sira hanoin que Indonesia ohin que kredibilidade maka'as ohin iha mundo ne'e, hotu-hotu respeita sira nia progressu, sira la mangame iha Konselho Seguransa nem hetan votu oan ida. Hau hanoin sira hatudu karik sira nia beikten ou demagozia.

TVTL : Sr. Presidente ita fila fali ba desizaun nebe que halo polemika, tensaun politika manas uitoan, tanba sa mak hau bele hateten dehan ne'e manas uitoan tanba wainhira desizaun ne'e kuandu sai Parlamentu halo kedas … ita bot nia Viagen ba rai liur maibe ikus mai aprova. Hafoin ikus mai mosu fali mosaun sensura ba Governo, ita hare todan ne'e komesa dudu ba dudu mai, mas kuandu ita hare lolos wainhira kuandu atu hasai desizaun ba kazu Maternus Berek Sr. Presidente mos rona ideas husi Dr. Mari'I Alkatiri, rona mos husi juis sira maibe ikus mai todan ne'e komesa halai ba, ita bele dehan hatudu lima ba malu. Saida mak ida ne'e, Sr. Presidente bele fo tok hanoin ruma ba ita nia povu sira kona ba situasaun ida ne'e ?

JRH : Sim, Dr. Mari Alkatiri reuniaun duni ho Primeiru Ministru, ho hau rasik ba kazu ida ne'e, e hau rasik maka hakarak koalia ho nia kona ba kazu ida ne'e, para nudar lider nasional ita hetan saida ida ba problema ida ne'e. E Dr. Alkatiri halo nia kontribuisaun diak que dalan saida mak bele resolve, nia lahateten que tenki julgamentu iha Timor, nia kumpriende relasaun diak ho Indonesia, tanba nia ho Xanana Gusmao autor Komisaun Verdade Amizade e nia nudar Primeiru Ministru partisipa e bele simu kreditu kredibilidade ba relasaun ho Indonesia laos Presidente Xanana deit, Primeiru governo Konstitusional sira hamutuk. Ne'e duni hau mos suprendido hakfodak que buat nebe Dr. Alkatiri hatudu ho moderasaun la reflete iha bankada Fretilin nian iha Parlamentu. Sira kahur buat rua, buat ida Presidente da Republika informa Parlamentu, husu Parlamentu atu halo viagem ida, ne'e buat ida hanesan formalidade deit tanba sa mak buat ne'e mosu iha neba tanba ita nia konstituisaun copia buat barak husi Portugal ninian, rai sira seluk Presidente hakarak sai nia sai ou devia nia informa. Ita copia husi sistema Portugal nian, Amerika laiha ida ne'e, Australia laiha, rai barak-barak iha mundo, Presidente Republika informa kona ba nia saida. Maibe Parlamentu kahur fali problema rua ne'e, problema Berek nian ho problema direitu autoridade que ekslusiva Presidente da Republika nian, mas pronto sira kurizi sira muda e problema ne'e taka ona e akontese iha Parlmentu dalaruma bele halo desizaun mos sala e reve lei, konstituisaun mos bele muda e halo emenda porque ne'e laos buat ida nebe que grave.

TVTL : Sr. Presidente mos ameasa atu resigna?

JRH : Sim, hau pronto atu rezigna se Parlamentu manteim desizaun ida ne'e, tanba ne'e hanesan interferensia ona que hau konsidera inkonstitusional que instituisaun ida que laiha mandatu ba Presidensia da Republika. Iha Konstituisaun laiha buat ida que hatete presidente da Republika presta contas ba Governo ka ba Parlamentu, Presidente da Rfepublika presta kontas ba povu ba nasaun. Kuandu nia hakarak halo mkomunikasaun ba Parlamentu nia tenki informa ba Parlamentu halo komunikasaun Parlamentu la konvoka Presidente da Republika. Uluk kuandu hau Primeiru Ministru fulan sanulu deit hau oferese an ba Parlamentu lubuk ida, tempu Dr. Mari Alkatiri ninian tinan 4 Parlamentu keixa que nnia nunka mosu iha neba. Hau buat kiik oan ruma hau rasik mak ba iha neba tanba hau gosta duni ba iha neba tanba hau gosta duni rona deputadu sira koalia debate. Maibe nudar Presidente da Republika, instituisaun ne'e seluk hau ba kuandu iha komunikasaun ruma importante, maibe liu tiha ona, hau ba Nova iorke representa estadu Timorense iha neba tanba sekretario geral insisti hakarak hau ba e laos konvida rai hotu-hotu ba rai balun deit. Ne'e orgulho bot ida tanba Sekretario Geral pessoalmente konvida hau. Hau la hatete deskorda ba mosaun sensura, mosaun sensura mos pratika normal iha Parlamentu hotu-hotu iha mundo, hakarak halo, halo deputadu sira depois sukat didiak sira nia konsiensia atu vota oin sa ? Fretilin hakarak halo mosaun sensura bele halo, mas hau hateten buat ida hau Jose Ramos Horta, Presidente da Republika hau apoia nafatin governo AMP nebe hau konsidera konstitusional hau lasimu argumnetu que mai husi opozisaun nebe hateten laos konstitusional, tanba hau mos hatene interpreta ita nia konstituisaun, I kuandu hau atu halo desizaun konsulta ema barak los, iha Timor Leste, ba Portugal, fransa, Amerika. E hau fo ezemplo oan ida ba ita bot sira foin lalais eleisaun iha Israel Partidu nebe mak manan kadima e partidu nebe sai Segundo lugar, Netanyahui ninian, e debates bot iha Israel no jornalista hotu-hotu hateten desizaun ne'e agora iha Presidente simon Perez nia liman e halo tuir konstituisaun Israel. Finalmente nia halo desizaun, se mak nia bolu forma Governo mak Netanyahu segunso partidu mais votadu, maibe tanba Segundo partidu mais votadu ne'e halibur partidu 5 ka 6 entaun nia hetan maioria Parlamentu. E partidu Kadima nebe mais votadu la konsege halo koligasaun e sira la halo protesto dehan ne'e inkonstitusional, Simon Perez halo buat nebe hau halo iha ne'e. Portantu Governo AMP ne'e konstitusional, legitimo, mundo tomak rekonyese, governo ne'e halo kontribuisaun ba dame, solusaun problema petisionario, solusaun problema deslokadu, ita nia ekonomia lao ba oin. Iha problemas barak opozisaun koalia hateten mal governasaun, korupsaun ne'e iha prosesu mekanismu atu halo. Hau tau konfiansa bot ba maun bot Xanana Gusmao, laos deit tanba Primeiru Ministru. Se maun bot Xanana Gusmao mak la kaer luta ne'e iha 81 ba oin e nia mak la kaer luta ne'e iha 99 ho Taur Matan ruak, ita ohin laiha nasaun ne'e. Nasaun ne'e rahun kedas iha 99, Xanana gusmao ho Taur mak hatudu nia vizaun, Taur iha ailaran, Xanana iha Cipinang, e tanba ne'e mak hau hatene nia fuan ba povu ida ne'e , nia terus ho povu ne'e, nia terus ho ema kiak, nia terus ho katuas sira, e buat nebe nia halo, nia halo tanba nia kunyese povu ne'e. Portantu opozisaun hakarak atu hatun Governo ne'e ita sei hare.

TVTL : ho Desizaun estadu nian klaru katak laiha Tribunal Internasional depois ita mos husu ba Indonesia tuir xefi estadu nia hanoin, vantagem saida ba Timor Leste ho buat hirak hanesan ne'e ?

JRH : Ita nia justisa fraku, fraku laos tanba juis sira fraku, fraku tanba lei mak seidauk iha, pessoal seidauk iha, juis seidauk iha. Buat ida hau kritika Nasoens Unidas mak ida ne'e, sira iha ne'e 99 –“2002 sira gasta osan juta ba juta halo Serious crime Panel ka Serious crime Unit, e halo julgamnetu ida ka rua ba Timor oan sira deit, sira lahalo julgamentu ba ema ida iha TNI nia laran. 2002-2003 sira hatene que Timor sei fraku hela foin mak sai husi crize bot 24 anos derepente taka tiha, serious Crime hatete ne'e agora responsabilidade Dili District Court e halai tiha. Entrega problema bot ne'e ba ita depois agora koalia bot hatete hakarak Tribunal Internasional. Tanba sa iha 2000 sira la koalia kedas kona ba tribunal internasional, ne'e duni hau hatete ba sira favor Hipokrasia to'o ona, ami laos beikten, ami laos lekirauk be hela iha ai leten ida han hudi be imi bele koalia ba ami, ami nonok deit. Ita bot sira mak kaer destinu Timor nian husi 99-2002, se uluk kedas kria Tribunal Internasional tanba sa mak administrasaun esklusiva mandatu mai husi konsellu Seguransa nusa la husu kedas ba Nove Iorke atu halo tribunal Internasional. Sira hanoin que sira kkoalia, ita nonok ita tauk, diskulpa. Sira nia papel devia atu hare oin sa tulun Timor Leste atu taka kanek ne'e, kanek povu nian, kanek terus nian, laos ke bebeik problema iha kotuk ne'e.

TVTL : hakarak rona mos idea ida husi Sr. Presidente, de vez enkuandu preukupasaun sira estadu ninian entre orgaun Soberanu sira ne'e, agora ho situasaun sira ne'e labele halo povu sira preukupa demais ho politika sira hanesan ne'e, saida mak Presidente nia hanoin ?

JRH : Povu ne'e iha tinan hirak nia laran kunyese ami, ita lider idak-idak, sira hatene se maka hamutuk duni ho povu, se mak laran mos, se maka hadomi duni povu ne'e, e se maka koalia tun sae, agoria eleisaun suku hare kedas, maske partidu politiku la halo parte hare kedas se imi hakarak hili xefi suku ida ne'e konotadu demais ho partidu ida ne'e ka lae, depois prepara an ba 2012, tanba hau sei koalia, sei hatete ba povu ne'e, hau lahatene se hau sei bele serbi to'o 2012 ka lae, hau nia mandatu sei to'o 2012 maibe hau iha direitu atu sai antes ka lae komforme razaun nebe bele mosu momentu ne'e. kuandu hau simu todan nudar Primeiru Ministru mandatu durante fulan 10 e hau fo hau nia kontribuisaun hodi hadia sittuasaun iha PNTL, FDTL depois simu todan nudar Presidente da Republika simu todan hodi hadia situasaun to'o ohin situasaun e agora situasaun hakmatek. Ne'e duni hau hatete ita hare situasaun to'o 2012 oin sa ? se eleisaun akontese iha 2012 hau pronto atu koalia ba povu hare lista politico sira nebe iha tinan hirak nia laran koalia, sira nia komportamentu oin sa, hau sei hatete ba povu favor elementu ida ne'e iha partidu nia laran la vota, tanba sa ? hau preukupadu teb-tebes relasaun ho Indonesia se elementus balun que ohin koalia ibun bot teb-tebes dehan hakarak tribunal Internasional, se 2012 sira mak ukun relasaun nasaun ne'e ho Indonesia ba los iha nebe ? hau hatete ba politiku sira nebe hakarak ukun nasaun ne'e sukat didiak lia fuan komunikadu nebe imi halo tanba Indonesia rai sira seluk estuda ita. Sira hare komportamentu lider ne'e para depois sira hare se partidu ida nebe kaer poder ita bele konfia sira halo relasaun diak ka lae ? ne'e duni hau nia konselo mak ida ne'e sukat didiak ita nia lia fuan para tinan ruma nia laran ita labele arrepende fila fali hodi hateten ; afinal buat nebe hau hateten laos los duni hanesan bosok, diskursu deit, maibe sira nebe rona ita lahanoin nune'e.

TVTL : Hau hakarak husu Sr. Presidente nia mensagem ba vitima sira , nebe oras ne'e ema barak ejiji justisa maibe pozisaun xefi estadu nian klaru kona ba ida ne'e

JRH : wainhira estadu iha meius, meius finanseiro tenki sai estadu ida social, tenki sai estadu ida solidariedade para fo tulun ba hotu-hotu nebe presiza tulun, laos vitima deit nebe 99, laos vitima 75 no 99 deit, kualker ema ida nebe vitima ba moras bot ida, nia mos vitima, nnia mos iha direitu simu tulun. Por exemplo se Timor oan ida veteranus tempu luta nia lakon tiha nia ain ho nia liman agora labele servisu nia iha direitu atu estadu tulun nia. Maibe se ohin jovem ida tanba nia jovem lanu sae motor monu ain liman tohar, estadu iha obrigasaun ka lae atu tulun nia ? iha obrigasaun. Portantu hau nia filosofia mak ida ne'e ita labele hateten ida ne'e mak iha direitu, ida neba laiha direitu. Vitima hotu-hotu que presiza estadu nia tulun iha direitu, tanba vitimas balun que ohin la presiza estadu nia tulun. Vitimas hirak que uluk iha Cipinang Sr. Caetano Guterres, Consul Timor nian iha Kupang, nia tinan hitu iha kadeia, tortura nia, nia ezemplo ida ba mundo tomak que hatudu nia perdaun, nia amizade, ba Indonesia e ba Timor oan sira maibe nia ohin konsul manan osan diak, e Timor oan balun seluk, balun iha Parlamentu, deputadu, balun iha Governu que uluk vitima, Xanana mos uluk vitima tinan 7 iha prizaun, maibe nia la presiza tulun husi estadu, nia primeiru Ministru. Vitima sira nebe nem uma kakuluk ida iha, toba iha rai bokon han mos laiha, ne'e presiza tulun.

State of TL gives Way for Militia to Abuse Justice
Parlamentarian Only Talks, UN washes hands, Victims choke

Also published in Timor Post, 1 Oct.

Maternus entering TL is a failure of National Police

"The Dark Justice": Untangling wrong ideas of Hugo Fernandes
By Martinho G. da Silva Gusmao

(This is a typo. As the article makes clear, PUN says the decision was ILLEGAL.)

The food is "so far" from the fire: interpreting philosopy accprding to Martinho Gusmao
By Hugo Fernandes

Dili – Timor-Leste born Indonesian citizens living in Atambua-Kupang-Indonesia, have threatened to set up checkpoints or sweeps vehicles with Timor-Leste white registration number plates because of the detention of the former Laksaur Militia Commander, Maternus Bere who is still detained at the Indonesian Embassy in Dili.

“We will undertake sweeps (checkpoints) of cars belonging to Timorese who travel in and out of Indonesia. This action will be taken especially against the sons and daughters of FRETILIN leaders including FRETILIN cadres who live near the border,” Francisco Soares Pereira told STL by telephone Friday (15/10).

The former refugees decided this because they consider that some FRETILIN leaders in Timor do not want to engage in reconciliation with the Timorese militia in Indonesia as it relates to the Maternus Bere case, which has not been resolved in Timor-Leste and becoming a controversy between FRETILIN leaders and the AMP government led by Prime Minister Kay Rala Banana Gusmao.

There has been a strong reaction from FRETILIN’s leaders and other opposition leaders such as KOTA and PUN to the government’s decision to transfer Maternus Bere from the Becora Prison to the Indonesian embassy in Dili. Their reaction resulted in a censure motion being presented but which failed to bring down the AMP government because the majority in the National Parliament gave the AMP government their vote of confidence for them to continue to govern until 2012.

The Timorese refugee leader also threatened to close, next week, as a protest against the FRETILIN leaders who want to try Maternus Bere. “Right now we are organizing a group in Atambua made up of nearly 24,000 people who will take action to close the border in Atambua and Kefamenanu to Oecusse and put in place check points to search the sons and daughters of FRETILIN leaders studying in Indonesia,” Francisco reinforced.

Francisco said that the central government in Jakarta, Kupang and Atambua have been informed of this proposed action so that they could grant them the license or the permission to undertake this action.

He stressed that this decision take by them was as a result of FRETILIN party leaders in Timor-Leste failing to give their support for the policy by the government of Kay Rala Xanana Gusmao to release Maternus Bere as an act of reconciliation pursuant to the agreement foreshadowed in the Truth and Friendship Commission in Timor-Leste.

“This action by us is because the FRETILIN party is not giving its support to Prime Minister Banana Gusmao who wants to engage in reconciliation with Timorese in Atambua.

PR Horta holds urgent meeting

In the mean time in relation to this threat by Indonesian citizens in Atambua, President of the Republic Jose Ramos Horta, Acting Prime Minister Jose Luis Guterres and Justice Minister Lucia Maria Lobato, held an urgent meeting at the Presidential Palace in Aitarak Laran to try and find a solution to this problem.

This meeting was considered to be urgent and closed to the public, and because of this we can’t give a detailed report on this issue.

According to information ascertained by this daily from Kupang, the movement of public transport between Timor-Leste and Kupang, including travel is occurring as normal despite the threat from Indonesian citizens in Kupang.

“Right now public transport including bus travel is still occurring as normal, despite their being information that Timorese refugees intend to close the border because of the Maternus Bere case,” said a source who did not want to be named.

According to him the T-L consultant in Kupang has also been subject to serious threats from Indonesian citizens although there have been no physical incidents.

Dili – President of the Republic Jose Ramos Horta, has already decided to return former Commander of the Laksaur militia Maternus Bere, to Indonesian authorities because he suffers from a complicated medical condition.

“I have made this decision so that there is no impact for the State of Timor-Leste, based on medical advice that Maternus Bere suffers from a condition that is a bit grave,” PR Horta told journalists this at the Comoro International Airport, Dili, on Monday 19 October 2009, as he was about to travel to participate at President SBY’s swearing in ceremony.

He said, that due to his medical condition, Timor-Leste had no reason to block the process to return Maternus Bere to Indonesia. “I do not want Maternus Bere to die in TL, because if he dies here we will be suffer serious consequences from Indonesia. Because of this, the government has to immediately resolve to return him to Indonesia for medical treatment,” PR Horta said.

He confessed that before the state decided to hand him over to Indonesian authorities, according to the opinion of two doctors, one from Indonesia and one from Timor-Leste, Maternus suffers from diabetes and other medical conditions.

The reason the State decided to hand Maternus over to Indonesian authorities was so that he could get medical treatment, because failure to do so, Maternus could die. “If he dies, we will be responsible,” he stressed.

The Nobel Peace Laureate promised to raise this case of the State of Timor-Leste deciding to free Maternus Bere with Indonesian President Bambang Susilo Yudoyono (SBY).

“When I am there I will speak with the Indonesian President who understands our situation on the Maternus Bere case,” he said.

Responding to reports of threats made by Timorese born Indonesian citizens to undertake searches or sweeps of vehicles with white Timor-Leste number plates because of the Maternus Bere case, PR Horta said that the Indonesian people will not do this because the State of Timor-Leste will release Maternus Bere.

PR Horta considers these reports of threats by Indonesian citizens as rumors only, because the Indonesian State will guarantee that it will not happen.

“I believe the situation will remain calm because they also understand our problem and that they cannot pressure us too much,” he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Jose Luis Guterres, who was also there with him, said that the government has agreed to let Maternus Bere return to Indonesia for medical treatment. But the decision would be made upon Prime Minister Banana Gusmao’s return from China. “PM Xanana will be the one to make that decision on this case,” Jose Luis stressed.

The Acting PM has already advised the President of the National Parliament Fernando Lasama Araujo regarding the medical condition suffered by Maternus Bere.

Timorese Cannot Oppose Decision

In the meantime, Justice Minister Lucia Maria Lobato, said that now she was waiting for the lawyers to process Maternus’ return to Indonesia.

Lucia appealed to judicial authorities and political leaders not to oppose or criticize the State’s decision regarding the freeing of Maternus Bere, because when political leaders criticize one another without looking for solutions, Maternus Bere can end up dying in Timor-Leste.

“We are taking care of this case with care, involving the courts to help us out of this situation. Everyone criticizes PM Banana or the Ministry of Justice. I ask, what is the PM getting out of this case? I think when we are in a situation like this, all Timorese have to support one another. Because we will have a big problem if he dies inside the embassy.” The Justice Minister acknowledged that Maternus’ medical state is grave because he has been under great pressure for two months whilst staying at the Indonesian embassy. “We all have to see that this case will affect us all, and is of a national interest. If we do not want to make an effort then we will be held responsible. Because we have to think about whether this case will end up creating difficulties for our people on the other side of the border,” Lucia commented.

National Parliament considers Indonesian citizens' threats don't represent the [Indonesian] state

Deklarasaun ministra Lucia Lobato konaba Maternus Bere:

Konferencia Imprensa Ministeriu da Justiça, Quarta-Feira (4 Novembru)

MINISTRA JUSTISA LUCIA LOBATO: Ita infrenta situasaun ida ne’ebe dificil hanesan governo, estadu, Parlamentu Nacional no sosiedade civil dala ida tan Timor- Leste hatudu katak ita bele bele resolve ita nia problema rasik maiske ita iha difikuldade barak maibe ita bele infrenta situasaun ne’e.

Ita hotu tuir ho atensaun debate iha parlamentu nacional ne’ebe PM rasik ba halo apresentasaun loron tomak iha PN responde konaba mosaun de sensura ne’ebe partidus opozisaun sira hato’o iha PN e hau hanoin hau bele hateten fila fali maibe publicu hatene ona konaba kazu Maternus Bere nian to’o iha altura PN ba iha parlamentu nacional Maternus Bere mantein iha Embaisada Indonesia.

Tuir akordu ne’ebe maka Indonesia fo ba ita, surat ida mai hau rasik hodi hateten katak sira sei mantein Maternus Bere iha Embaisada Indonesia to’o prosesu atu de konta ne’e fila ba Indonesia ne’e hotu.

Iha dia 30 liu bah au simu informasaun husi Embaissada Indonesia hateten katak hodi informa ba governo dehan katak tamba situasaun saude Maternus nian ne’ebe grave iha konplikasaun moras oin tolu ka hat moras rins, fisuagudu, malaria iha mos problema konaba tensaun e Indonesia senti preokupadu ho nia saude mediku sira mos ba halo analiza dala hira iha embaisada rasik e Indonesia senti katak sira tenki tau atensaun ba Maternus Bere tamba sira nia sidadaun rasik e sira ho urgencia sira evakua Maternus Bere sai husi Timor ba Indonesia iha sexta-Feira (30/10) liu ba ita simu informasaun ida ne’e.

Tuir informasaun husi embaisada hateten katak nia internadu husi hospital ida husi Indonesia.iha preokupasaun barak no iha informasaun barak mak governo tenki hato’o fila fali ba publiku tomak liliu ba povu TL konaba Maternus Bere nia situasaun, agora dadaun Maternus Bere laiha ona Timor tamba nia situasaun mak la permiti nia atu kontinua atu hela iha embaissada Indonesia tamba bele hamosu problemas ba nia a’an rasik.

Tamba razoens humanitaria hau hanoin katak situasaun ida ne’e ita bele admitie dala ida tan katak proceso naruk ida to mai ohin hodi hato’o ba publiku fila fali konaba informasaun ne’e husu ba konprensaun TL nia hotu atu hare ba kazu ida ne’e hanesan kazu interese nacional Maternus Bere laos interese nacional maibe duplikasaun husi kazu ne’e karik bele sai situasaun ida ne’ebe ita hotu tenki tau atensaun Sosiedade civil, governo, parlamentu ,media no entidades hotu senti katak ida ne’e responsavel ita nian hotu atu hola asaun ruma konaba halo nusa mak rezolve asuntu ida ne’e, hau hanoin informasaun ikus hato’o tina ona atu nune’e ita hotu bele hetan klarifikasaun hetan informasaun husi parte official governo nian hateten katak kondisaun Maternus Bere ikus mak ne’e purtantu nia laiha ona Timor nia evakuadu ba Indonesia tuir informasaun ne’ebe hau rasik simu informasaun husi embaisada indonesai e agora dadauk nia iha internadu iha hospital ida iha Indonesia. Nia informa ba hau iha Sexta-Feira lorokraik.

Husi parte ida ne’e ita hare ba Indonesia nia seriedade atu kumpri ba promesa ne’ebe sira fob a ita purtantu iha surat ida ne’ebe iha dia 30 embaisada Indonesia asina fo hela bah au rasik sira kumpri duni e sira la hasai Maternus Bere, sira husik hela iha sira nia embaisada besik fulan rua resin ,faktus iha tamba durante nia iha embaisada Indonesia nia laran mediku sira ba hare nia , iha dokumentasaun kompletu konaba saude ninian tantu iha medikus laos mediku ida deit mak ba maibe halo team medis emediku Timor oan mos iha laran, mediku internacional mos iha laran.

Durante fulan nia laran halo akompanhamentu ba nia saude rasik ho mediku sira nia partisipasaun, mediku sira ne’ebe halo rutin ba embaisada hodi asistente mediku ba Maternus . husu atu ita komprende karik nia hetan susar ruma iha embaisada Indonesia nia laran , hau senti ne’e ita tenki hatan ba situasaun ida ne’e. Indonesia mos hetan preokupasaun barak ho estadu nian rasik tamba ne’e mak sira hola desijaun depois de fulan rua resin.

Ita koalia konaba kazu Maternus Bere nian deit ital abele koalia liu fali ba buat ne’ebe sei akontese iha futuru purtantu hau hanoin ida ne’e mak konkretu ne’ebe ita infrenta agora Maternus Bere nian, purtantu se Maternus Bere ida mosu fali mai iha tinan ka fulan ida ou rua mai e ita labele hanoin katak ital abele kria tan situasaun ida ne’ebe mosu tan Maternus Bere bar-barak , husu ita atu komriende ho situasaun ida ne’e ho hanoin katak ita nia interese rasik , ita nia futuru no nasaun nia interese hodi estadu tomak hola desijaun konaba Materus Bere nian ida ne’e.situasaun ne’e ita hotu tenki bele infrenta ho diak.

Hau nia pozisaun hanesan membru governo nian hau hanoin buat ne’ebe informasaun kompletu ne’ebe PM hato’o iha PN iha loron ida tomak PM hatan ba povu nia represante iha PN ne’e klaru konaba preokupasaun ida ne’e , tantu hanoin hau lamai tan atu esplika tan konaba kazu ne’e tamba ita hotu informadu ona husi PM nia deklarasaun ne’ebe husik hela iha PN.

Hau mai iha ne’e laos atu fo klarifikasaun fali ba ema ida nia ideia purtantu hau fo informasaun ida ne’ebe los ba publiku, hau laiha fatin atu komenta fali ema seluk nia lia fuan.se ita hakarak koalia iha kontestu ida ne’e ho rasional lao ituan ne’e hau atu hateten katak itahakarak atu fahe asuntu sira ne’e ketak-ketak ou hakarak fahe asuntu Maternus Bere nian hansan asuntu ne’ebe bo’ot ba estadu no interese nacional , laos kestaun kik hodi hare iha pontu de vista ida mais tenki hare mos pontu seluk hanesan governo ami tenki tau konsiderasaun. Husi parte estadu TL nian klaru tiha on a katak kazu Bere nian kazu espesifiku ida ba ita nia rai ne’ebe sai preokupasaun ba estadu tomak, laos katak la tau atensaun ba vitima sira preokupasaun maibe iha interese nacional ne’ebe bo’ot hanesan estadu PR fo ona nia mensagen naruk no PM mos fo ona nia esklaresementu naruk iha PN.

Koalia konaba vitima ami halao vizita loron ba Suai ami laos ba halimar nian maibe ami ba hasoru malu ho vitima sira e PM rasik koalia ho vitima sira apresenta pozisaun ne’ebe hola tiha ona konaba kazu Maternus Bere nian enatun vitima sira barak mak komprende konaba situasaun ne’e, tamba ne’e mak hau hanoin desijaun hola tina ona responsabilidade duni governo nian konaba asuntu ida ne’e sei iha responsablidade baa mi nia duni.hau simu informasaun iha Sexta maibe hau hau lahatene nia sai husi dader ou sai tiha ona mak sira informa hau laiha informasaun konaba ida ne’e, maibe hau simu informasaun katak sira tenki evakua urgenti ba Indonesia ne’ebe informasaun hau simu sesta lokraik. Hau la husu informasaun detalhadu konaba evakua Maternus.

Hau senti prosesu legal ne’e ita bo’ot sira bele husu direitamente Meternus Bere nia advogadu Sergio Hornai ne’ebe nia mak lidera ekipa advogadus ba Maternus nia mak hatene asuntu Maternus Bere nian durante fulan rua resin.

She goes on to talk about the Indonesian embassy deciding to take him to Indonesia for health reasons.